Here’s an update to the list! Now included Ninja and Summoner!. I’ll get to work with Machinist and maybe Black Mage in the near future.
SS: 0.074 (Mudra clipping is horrible)
Summoner w/ Garuda – No book smacking:
Summoner w/ Ifrit – No Book smacking:
You may be asking “Why does Garuda have a higher SS Weight?”. It all comes down to the Enhanced Pet Trait which summoners have. A Summoner using Ifrit has twice the chance of proccing this trait.
Pets Crit Formula is similar to the Casters Crit Formula, just it starts from 4.5%, rather than 5%.
So, with 757 Crit:
((757-354)/(858*5)+0.045) = 13.9%
1-(1-13.9%*0.2)^2 = 5.48%
5.48/3 = 1.827% (We’ll use 0.01827 instead)
1/0.01827 = 54.7409s per proc with Ifrit.
1-(1-13.9%*0.2) = 2.78 / 3 = 1 / 0.000926 = 107.961s per proc with Garuda.
This increase, as good as it is, allowing you to pump out more Ruins, also increases the DoT clip chance. Not only that, your DoTs are snapshotted, so even if you received that buff whilst your DoTs are currently up and you’re not reapplying them, (either by a hard cast or tri-disaster), your DoT damage won’t be Boosted.
Therefore, we can argue that more Crit + Ifrit = more SS clipping chance. Having said that, Ifrit is definitely a greater DPS boost than Garuda, though, much riskier and can die much easier.
I hope that makes sense.
55 thoughts on “Updated 3.0 Weights”
Thanks Dervy should i post this in the Nin thread or should i avoid talking about it?
Post it. Just don’t talk about parsing anymore on the official forums. God knows who else they’ll ban.
A few others I know have also been banned for similar things.
Will do forgot to log in when i posted my original comment lol. Kinda stupid though I wish you the best of luck
Developers seem so back and forth on Advanced Combat Tracker or other things yet they design systems and difficulty curves that require an in-depth understanding of stat weights for optimal performance against DPS Checks (Looking at you Alex 3/4 Savage).
(Because I nitpick)
So, NIN wants STR and SMN wants DEX? :p
Fixed it 😛
Why “maybe” for BLM ? 😥 😥 😥 😥 😥 😥 😥 😥
I check this website 6 times a day since you created it only for this info 😥
When all job (except blm maybe >_<) will be posted, will you post the updated damage formula ? Or maybe the formula used to get the stat weights ? Im asking because i would like to create a script that find me the best DPS based on the gear i will add in it
I have absolutely no clue how Black Mage operates, same for the Machinist. I’ve never touched them not read into their mechanics. Machinist and Black Mage will take a very long time for me, especially now I’m perma banned from forums (Fuck you Mods).
Ah well. I’ll get it done eventually, I just have no time-frame for them. Sorry pal.
Everything you need to know on BLM is here (coming from Aikaal’s post) : http://achaab77.free.fr/Dervy1.png
(and http://achaab77.free.fr/Dervy2.png because i think the rotation is a bit too small on the first link)
Compared to what you did for other jobs, BLM will be A LOT easier, considering you have a “simple” rotation w/o proc (almost). The only tricky thing is that you have the main rotation which is in fact 3 consecutive rotations with a different timer for Enochien so it’s a bit long but always it should be easy.
I can sort out timers easily. I have on-going counting timers for Dreadwyrm Trance, BotD and Greased Lightning. Enochian timer won’t be any issue. What I will be needing however, is how enochian and B4 operates.
Does your Enochian apply instantly when pressed, or does it come after a short animation delay like other skills? What about B4? Again, does it refresh your Enochian instantly after your cast, or is it an additional 1s (ish) wait. Stuff like that are the most crucial parts for me.
Between the moment where you hit the button and the moment where you get Enochian, i think there is 0.5 sec (like any other buff i think). When you cast B4, you have i think 1 sec (due to the animation of B4). During this second, even if you lost Enochian, you will get it at the end of the animation of B4 (assuming you finished to casted it before you lost Enochian).
If you want, you can see those interactions yourself with my account if it can help ^_^
Multiple clips of someone casting Enochian and B4 is good enough 🙂 Don’t want peoples accounts to be suspended!
Please give Machinist some love T^T you are my only hope Dervy. Thx for hard work and hope u work more!!
Don’t worry, I’m working on BLM, MCH soon! 🙂
Thanks for The SMN work, Dervy. And sorry to hear about the forum ban – I’ve posted stuff there too so gonna stop. At the same time that makes those forums kind of useless for a lot of things.
Would you ever consider doing weights for healers? I play SCH specifically and while it would be nice to assume they’re close to SMN, that’s unlikely due to pet mechanics and spells like Adloquium.
It’s extremely hard to map out Healer Potency, as they do not have a set rotation or anything of the sort. You can measure their effective HPS, but this isn’t a good measurement for healing output at all due to overhealing.
It is something I’m trying to figure out, but I have no time-frame as to when I’ll get it done.
As a SCH main who plays all three healing jobs I would love to see the weights on DPS for all three. The other useful bits of information are how much MND equals 1 WD, how much DET equal 1 MND, and if SS on HoTs is different from SS on DoTs, (Although I’m going to assume that the last one uses the same formula.) I’d be willing to help out on this in any way I can.
I made these for a different reason, but I think you’ll get some use out of them. I’m taking an extended break from the game, but I have 4 days left on my sub. If you would like any parses of anything let me know.
I’ll have the Ninja Thread updated this evening with the stat weights and BiS Loadouts.
Hey there i know you’re very busy, but just out of curiosity based on the trends of the melee classes, do you think warrior will have a similar spread of crit/det/ss at ~.16/.14/.1 .
Thanks for all the work you’ve done so far, a lot of people out there myself included really appreciate it tons!
Warrior in Deliverance will have a lower Crit weight than the “proportion” of what we’ve seen so far of other jobs.
It’ll still most probably be:
SS until 9gcd berserk > crt > det > ss
In the future patches, it’ll be SS until 10gcd berserk > crt > det > ss
Also, comments on my blog need to be approved by myself before they’re visible. Cuts out spam and other bullshit. I saw your first comment, so don’t worry about it 🙂
Sorry about that i was confused when it didn’t show up so i thought it didn’t go through haha. Thanks i was just considering on what pieces to buy and still juggling the 639 accuracy cap, and was just using the melee stats as a rough guide, good to know crit isn’t largely higher than det.
What do you need for help on the BLM side of this? An hour long video of me doing a procless rotation? Also how is the DR on Crit? I’d assume it still devalues greatly over time.
Diminishing marginal returns only applies to the Critical Hit Chance aspect of CRT.
CRT however, per point, is exponentially scaling damage.
For BLM, I have the “information” to build the Rotation Model. What I don’t have is the scaling of int/wd on a BLM per point.
So what do you need in order to figure that out? Parse logs with different weapons? Whatever you need man.
I’m very surprised that SS doesn’t beat out DET on essentially any class. Is the DoT potency change really so minuscule?
It’s a combination of things:
A) For most classes, DoTs make up approximately 15% of their DPS. Skill/spellspeed only scales DoTs by 0.000124 per point of SS from 354.
B) 1 – Skill/Spellspeed does not affect Auto-Attacks. If I remove Auto-Attacks from my Model, Skillspeed is greater than Determination for the Dragoon. Not checked for other jobs.
2 – In the case of Summoners, even though Spellspeed does affect the cast time of a bet, this is effectively rendered useless. There’s a bug in the AI of Summoner pets, where despite there being a decrease in the cast time of skills, there seems to be a weird “delay” in between skills, which gets greater between each class, the greater your Spellspeed, so SS doesn’t even affect pets pretty much.
C) In most cases, an increase of Skill/Spellspeed increases DoT clip chance, especially for the Monk, Dragoon and Summoner. For Ninjas, it’s their Mudras. Mudras clip way too much with heavy amounts of Skillspeed.
Hello, IDERVY, thanks for the weight info..
So.. what do you think about monk relic’s best stats? I was from accuracy & determination because of 2.0 stats weight, now with the weight change, what would you recommend my relic stats be?
Any chance you’ll be doing Paladin in the near future? They seem straight forward enough that determining a stat weight shouldn’t be difficult. I know most people go, “Paladin stat weights? Who cares they do zero damage anyways?” But some of us Paladins out there want to maximize what we can milk out of this already difficult job. Thanks in advance for any answer!
Do you want rough weights, or accurate ones? I can get rough paladin weights in less than an hours worth of work. The question is whether you want accurate weight scaling of Determination & Critical Hit Rating vs Strength.
Anything good enough to give a solid direction to head in. People assume ‘anything without Parry is BiS’ but there’s more to it than that, and when making those A3 token decisions its pretty important to be on the ball. Is it safe to assume they’re sort of like the other DPS jobs? Crit>Det>SS, roughly?
Yup! Unless they have some inherent softcaps to actually play the job efficiently (enough SS to do 9 GCD berserk etc), it’ll follow CRT > DET > SS
Hi, this is a great piece of work thanks for this.
A question though is there any way of getting the DRK stat weights?
I can contribute with anything needed
Do you have the Paladin stat weights? Just a rough estimate, if you have no time don’t worry.
Rough estimate? Use Dragoon.
I’ll get rough Paladin and Warrior done this week.
Does Crit and SS values still constantly change depending on how much Crit/SS you already have? Or does it remain constant no matter how much Crit or SS you have?
Of course. Both Crit and SS are exponentially scaling.
Not only that, SS and Crit both affect your rotations much more drastically, more DoT clipping, innate skills where you have a 100% crit modifier built in (Like PB) will alter in PPS. Many contributing factors.
So…instead of pumping everything into 1 stat, it’s better to distribute them evenly in a way? Like don’t but Everything into crit(which is the highest secondary stat weight atm) but still keep that thing high?
Hey, IDervy any progress with the black mage stat weights, even rough weights, as be nice to have an idea of how useful the twines/coats are for them and with this my static will finally be able to create a proper priority list for the twines/coats (base on stat gain per dps).
Anyways thanks for all the work you do for the community 🙂
BLM and MCH will take a while as I’ll have to learn them from scratch in a short time. I have the resources I need, it’s just time. I’m working on Tanks at the moment, mainly Dark Knight.
Is there any reason for the pet crit formula starting at 4.5% instead of 5%? Aside from SE being like “Why not”.
It’s literally “Why Not”. I ran it through a Linear Regression in Excel, and 4.5 was the only possible outcome with the least amount of errors.
Not sure if my first comment went through, so I’ll comment again.
I have a question regarding bard’s stat weight. Your calculations/formulas you used include the 30% increase from WM I assume. My question is a bit hard to understand, so I’ll try to break it down as much as I can using samples/examples.
Assuming accuracy, VIT, DEF and MAGIC DEF are not needed/used.
Lets say I have two random 210 deepmist belt of aiming(random stats)
vs 200 Void Ark Belt of Aiming 43dex+38det(.140), 28crit(.224)= 54.592
It’s obvious and clear the void ark belt wins by a small margin. For questions purposes, lets just say and round all three belt to 54.6(equal/same).
My question is: If they are the same stats of 54.6. In according to WM 30% boost, which belt is better? The 47dex(less/worst sub stats)x30%WM or 43dex(more/better sub stats)X30%WM? Are all three belts the same? Or would the 47dex belt be better since it would have a bigger multiplier(due to main stat) from the 30%WM?
Spam filter. Unverified users need to be approved before their post is visible.
As for your other question, I fully understand what you mean. I’ll give you a reply soon 🙂
Ah I see. Haha, I apologize for the double post. I’m glad you understand what I was trying to get across; I look forward to you response! And thank you for the quick response and as for all the hard work you’ve done and continue to be doing. It is very much appreciated! 🙂
Okay. So you’re looking at it from a per hit perspective. According to the Japanese, the Dragoons and Bards deal the same baseline damage (I disagree, but w/e).
So, we have the formula of:
And the Full Crit Formula of:
(1 + ((800-354)/(858*5)+0.45)*((800-354)/(858*5)+0.05) )
Assuming you have 1000 DEX, 68 WD and 300 DET, 800 CRT –
(68/25+1)*(1000/9)*(300/7290+1)*(1 +((800-354)/(858*5)+0.45)*((800-354)/(858*5)+0.05)) = 467.04 Damage @ 100 Potency.
If we now add the 47 DEX+ SS belt =
(68/25+1)*(1047/9)*(300/7290+1)*(1 +((800-354)/(858*5)+0.45)*((800-354)/(858*5)+0.05)) = 488.9979 Damage @ 100 Potency.
Now, if we do the 43 DEX belt:
(68/25+1)*(1043/9)*(338/7290+1)*(1 +((828-354)/(858*5)+0.45)*((828-354)/(858*5)+0.05)) = 491.6 Damage @ 100 Potency.
So as you can see, in a per hit basis, the 43 DEX belt is already way better than the 47DEX + SS belt. The issue is that this game is full of Multipliers. The more, or stronger multipliers you have, the greater the combination of everything will be.
If we were looking at it from a GCD perspective, then the 43 DEX belt would win hands down. But we’re not. My Model will always take into account the increase from Skillspeed. I can’t exactly calculate the relative increase with WM in relation to an increase in Skillspeed, I’ll need to think of a formula for it, but as you fire hits at a faster rate, you’ll eventually reach a point where you’ve dealt X more GCDs more than without the bonus from Skillspeed – which is buffed via VM. That’s how my model, models out Skillspeed.
Skillspeed is a very delicate issue unfortunately and I still do not know how to approach it in regards to gearing for BiS.
I’m sorry I couldn’t give you a proper direct answer with numbers, but as I said, Skillspeed is a very touchy issue. A lot of Japanese players dislike Skillspeed for many reasons, which I may go and talk about in a future date, regarding Hits per Minute/Duration etc etc.
Hey, thank you again for your hard work, appreciate the effort put into trying to get me an answer. Going off of the Dragoon baseline damage formula, it does give me an idea/answer to some degree.
So correctly me if I’m wrong, it’s safe for me to assume, LOWER LV (crit det sub stats) gear, “could” potentially > HIGHER LV (worse sub stats) gear WHILE UNDER THE EFFECT of Wanderer’s Minuets’ 30% boost.
One last question, which of the following does WM’s 30% benefit more from? Or is it the same?
10DEX VS 0DEX+crit/det
Assuming the # on crit/det=10dex.
Sorry if I maybe be repeating myself. I just wanted to make things clear and that we’re on the same page. 🙂
Pretty easy to calculate.
488.9979 * 0.3 = 146.69937
491.6 * 0.3 = 147.48
The 43 DEX set gives a bigger boost with VM, despite them both receiving a 30% boost.
so, does ninja ss stat weight remains the same after the mudra fix?
I’ll need to redo Mudra Animation timings, but yes, there should be a change in SS.
I’m working on a comparison spreadsheet for gear at ilvls 200-210, and I am scratching my head as to how WD weight is calculated on Summoner.
WD * Magic Damage on the weapon greatly outweighs the others in terms of converted total WD stat weight contribution on the item. i.e. I end up with a converted stat weight from WD to be 1218.21 on a (ilvl 210) 105 magic damage weapon vs. a mere 807.5 on the equivalent (ilvl 210) 76 physical damage Dragoon weapon. That would mean, overall, WD is vastly more important to the damage a Summoner is outputting compared to others.
Is this right?
For balancing reasons, Magic Classes have higher Magic Damage.
Remember, AA’s scale from Strength, a stat that Casters don’t “stack”. Also, casters never use their AAs (Except some SMNs). Also, 1/3th – 14/th of a Melee Jobs damage comes from their Auto-Attacks. So, for balancing reasons, Casters have higher Magic Damage on their weapons, in relation to a Melee jobs Weapon Damage.
Hope that makes sense.
Yeah, actually I didn’t even think of that. That does make a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying!